Paul: 0:05

Welcome to Courageous Conversations. Today we dive into the remarkable journey of Raymond Thompson, Senior Lighting Director for the Young and the Restless for over 40 years. Ray's visionary lighting shaped the show's atmosphere and emotion, playing a key role in its enduring success as one of the most watched daytime dramas. With 10 Daytime Emmy nominations and wins, his innovative techniques set a new standard for lighting design, influencing the entire soap opera genre. Ray's legacy is one of storytelling through light, creating moments that define both the show and the industry. Let's explore the brilliance behind the scenes. Raymond, welcome to Courageous Conversations.

Raymond: 0:54

Thank you, Paul. I'm honored to be here.

Paul: 0:56

So I'd like to start, uh, at your starting point, and I'd like you to tell me what you're the product of.

Raymond: 1:04

I'm a product of, parents that had great latitudes in allowing me to find myself, really. As a child, I I did a lot of reading and I was really kind of an introvert in many ways for many years. I developed this fantasy life, reading life, I immersed myself in books to the point where my first jobs were actually at libraries because they said, well, you're here all the time. Why don't you get a job here? So that was kind of a great thing. And I think that fostered my imagination and fostered my ability to put myself in other people's shoes. In characters in books, you put yourself in their positions. And I think all of that led to me having this sense of confidence. And then I had these parents that really gave me permission to explore a lot of different avenues. When I became, a little later when I became interested in, theater, right? In high school, and my parents, neither of them had anything to do with theater. So, along came this audition to be in the musical Camelot. And I'm in my freshman year in high school. And so I thought nothing about, going to audition for this. And my father went out, those were the days of reel to reel tape, and he went out and bought me a reel to reel recording of Richard Burton doing Campelot on Broadway and I practiced with that, and I went in, and here I am a freshman, and I'm walking in all these seniors who have planned out their lives, and they knew they were going to get these roles. I got the role! So it was that my experience in fantasy life had allowed me to imagine that I could do that. And it gave me a courage to, to know that I could achieve something, that there were no boundaries. So, that's kind of the beginning, I think, and then I went on to careers that they had nothing to do with,

Paul: 2:54

yeah, So when you left home, what did you believe about yourself?

Raymond: 3:00

I believed that I was capable of things. I was curious. I was always curious, and I had been taught by my parents to always look at what the other person is doing and react to that. For instance, my father would have these projects and I would be drawn into them. And he was a taskmaster in terms of, you know, if you're working with somebody, You're paying attention to what they're doing. And so if you're holding a light on something that they're doing, light's not off to the side it's, it's on whatever it is, because otherwise you're not assisting.

Paul: 3:35

So how did this concept of actor waiter versus waiter actor when you got your first job in New York?

Raymond: 3:43

Well, at the time I was going to new York to get a job. And, I graduated, I had my BA in acting. I'd done shows in town, productions theater productions, primarily. I'd done a little bit of film, but, I wanted to go to New York and I wasn't interested in technical theater or anything like that, but I knew that, I needed to go to New York and be an actor first and a waiter second, because you always know you're going to have to be waiting tables to begin with, unless you go with a lot of money so I thought, well, I better get a job that I can make some money. So I networked around and the people that I was, had gone to, university with, and one woman that had been a real tight friend of mine had recommended that I put in an application at CBS to work as a stagehand. And she said, go in and tell me the whole process, go into the. Union, put in your application, do all this stuff. And I thought, okay, I can do all that. I've had theater training. I've been in front of the lights. I could be behind them. So I went in and put in the application. Lo and behold, I got my first job, right? And the purpose of that was to go in with money, to New York again as an actor waiter.

Paul: 4:55

And so was the actor waiter concept, was that Arthur? Was that Camelot coming through?

Raymond: 5:02

I think so. I think that that was me just being, having this goal in mind and not being fearful about achieving it. When I went to the union hall to put in the application, I ended up being pulled out of the line by this, business agent it was seen right out of the Godfather, right? Or, Goodfellas. I mean, he was this guy dressed in a three piece suit with a big cigar in his hand. And he came out and pulled me out of the line and took me into this paneled office and started questioning me. And I, don't know why. He seemed to be fairly, encouraging. At the end of it, he said, well, you know, with your background, there's a lot of things you could do, but, we'll look into it. And then I got the call two days later and people that I'd gone to school with that had studied, theater that had studied, stage work, had never been interviewed in that way, or had never gotten that response, I think. So

Paul: 5:57

What do you think that was?

Raymond: 5:59

Well, I think it was, I connected, I was paying attention to what he was saying. And I think there's an empathy that comes with that. And I'm interested in things. I was interested in what he was saying. And I was fearless. My first call was on a show where I was, um, they asked me to run a follow spot an arc follow spot, which I'd never done before. So I spent a few hours the night before, before I went in and talked to a guy that had done it and made all these notes on the process. And when I ended up going in, I had the best looking follow spot of anybody on the call. So it's just a matter of concentration, I think, and commitment and curiosity.

Paul: 6:40

You know, it's interesting as I listen to you, I often talk to young leaders who are, you know, say, how do I break in, right? How do I get my first, manager job or my first director job or whatever that is. And I heard you just tell us pay attention, be curious and dedicate time to your craft.

Raymond: 6:58

Yeah.

Paul: 7:01

You have this mantra, in tandem to that, you have this mantra, be willing, I've heard you say that in other podcast interviews, what does that mean?

Raymond: 7:12

That means, to be willing is to listen to what's being said. What somebody's saying to you and what they're requiring and never saying, oh, I can't do that or, and making up excuses why you can't do it, because anything I think I truly believe pretty much anything is possible. It's just your belief, your ability to make the commitment to do it really. And you can also say at times you might say, well, this might take a little longer than you might think it should. But. it's going to be possible. And to me, that's what it is. It's commitment to, and willingness to pursue something.

Paul: 7:49

So there you are, a young actor who gets a call by CBS, right? You go in, you've got the, the light, right? The job and you're just thinking, I'm going to work this job so I can make money and go back to acting.

Raymond: 8:04

Yeah.

Paul: 8:04

And how did this mindset of be willing, Open up a new door. How did you decide, Oh gee, I'm going to give up acting and lean into this. How did that happen?

Raymond: 8:14

Well, It was interesting, CBS at that point, they'd really been the, CBS Television City was the first place that really did television in the United States. That did a studio built for television.

Paul: 8:28

That's LA, right? Yeah, LA.

Raymond: 8:30

And, yeah. And they built it. They looked at the BBC and they decided that this is how we'll do the stages. They built four prototype stages. So, I ended up going in with these guys that, were at the beginning of television, and they had these lighting directors and lighting designers. And I think I was picked out of the crowd because I paid attention. And at one point they needed board operators. And so I had been, there's just a shorter period of time, but I had management come down and they said, I guess they must have been impressed with how I'd done my jobs, right? And they knew that I had a background. And so they came down and they said, would you like to train to be a, a board operator? And I said, sure. So, I went to board school for one day, and then I got thrown on a show. And, uh, it was a game show.

Paul: 9:17

Oh, a game show.

Raymond: 9:20

And, it was a show called Hue, which was, um, not a very memorable show, but there I was, so I kind of, I knew enough to do what I was doing, but there was always a danger you go to black, which you never should do if you make a big mistake. So, I survived that. And the lighting director that I was working with was impressed. So I ended up getting more board jobs on other shows. And, then I ended up on it with, a guy named Art Roberts, who, saw in me, I guess, potential and at this point I had also been there about a year and they asked me to do the Emmys live, right? Which they were doing at that point at the Pasadena Civic. So I'd kind of done this test under fire. And so, when they needed a lighting designer, he said, I'd like to train Ray to be a lighting designer. So that was a pivot, I guess you'd say. Because at that point, I saw that as an artistic outlet for the thing that I saw in acting that I loved. You know, this ability to, paint with light, right? To be a part of that whole production process, which is to me, what's exciting about theater and about, the entertainment industry is you're working with other people that are also artists. And, so I saw that I loved that challenge of creating and lighting people and lighting scenes which had great variety because every scene is different. So that's kind of how it came about, you know, I ended up working with these guys that had been in the business that had done Playhouse 90s and, early television that was incredible stuff that they did with very little resources compared to today.

Paul: 10:58

You know, you remind me of, as you're talking, sometimes the pivot that we take as humans is a juxtaposition of how we understand things. And you said you wanted to be an actor. And then you said, through lighting, you found artistry in that. And that gave you the same type of satisfaction in creation.

Raymond: 11:19

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And in the same kind of, it's all because they're all parts of creating, telling a story, right? And, as an actor, that's what you're doing is you're playing a character, you're telling a story. And it contributes to all of that. You know, the lighting does, everything does. And I was a part of that whole process, which I found exciting. I still love acting though.

Paul: 11:44

So before we get into the middle of this, I want to fast forward to the end.

Raymond: 11:48

Okay.

Paul: 11:49

And now you're seeing yourself, right, with 10 Emmys, 10 nominations and 10 Emmys. I'm wondering, now, as you look back, why did you choose to tell stories through light?

Raymond: 12:03

I chose it because, lighting, to me, is the most integral part of setting a scene. and creating an atmosphere, and conveying emotional content we've all seen that in many movies, if something is just flat lit. It's hard to get involved to be pulled into it. And if something's interestingly lit and we're seeing so many more things now with the cameras that are available, it's easier to do than it was at one time, but that's what really draws you in, I think, feeling like you're in a real place and everything that's happening is not artificial.

Paul: 12:42

Interesting. And so when you talk to people now, you know, younger people or people who are, trying to pivot or understand what the circumstance is, do you ever think to yourself, if they just shifted the lighting or hung a lighting rack or looked around the corner, they could see things differently? Or how does lighting play into your perspective today of people who are stuck or challenged?

Raymond: 13:08

Well, that's an interesting question. Let me think about that for just a second. I tend to use a lot of lighting analogies when I talk to people. I just think that to be successful at lighting, you really have to know the story, right, and you have to understand what you're trying to convey, and I think that if I was talking to a young person, I would use the same principles, I would say, look, you have to break this down and analyze, As I would do with the lighting situation, lighting plot, and you have to look at all the options, but you have to be aware that you have to be flexible because people change, people miss their marks, that's what life is about is being flexible and being able to set yourself up with a framework that's adaptable so you're not frozen. Some people, that I've worked with in the past will be lighting a set and they box themselves in so that they have no flexibility. Especially when you're working under time constraints. So I guess I would apply that to advice. If I were giving advice, I'd say, pay attention and pretty much use the same principles that I've used to light a set or light a scene.

Paul: 14:14

You know, you remind me as you're talking you once filmed a plane crash in a building collapse all in one week.

Raymond: 14:21

Yeah.

Paul: 14:22

And I'm wondering how did you balance the need to keep your emotions in check because I can imagine it was tremendous pressure while serving the technical challenges of a shoot like that.

Raymond: 14:36

Well, I was helped by my ability to concentrate, to focus in and not be distracted by extraneous, input, you're focused on your goal, I think that's the main thing. And just knowing that it's possible to do, and planning, going into it, planning is 90 percent of it. The constructs you make in my case, lighting constructs, the way I hang it, the way the plot is set up, where the lights are positioned, all of that, and the flexibility that I create with all that, that gives me the ability to work quickly I take the time in the setup, because when you're executing on anything, there may not be time. It's too late then. Preparation, everything is preparation.

Paul: 15:21

You have three themes running through so far, and what I'm hearing. Okay. You've said that, you know, planning and preparation. Yeah. You have belief that anything is possible and focus,

Raymond: 15:32

you

Paul: 15:33

know, tremendous focus on whatever it is you're doing. And I wonder was there a lesson, a leadership lesson, you know, behavioral lesson that kept coming up over and over for you. Sometimes it's your greatest strength, right? Could also be your greatest weakness throughout your career. Was there a lesson that kept coming up or like, Oh, there it is again, like Raymond, there it is again. And what was that?

Raymond: 15:58

Well, there was an affirmation, I guess. Maybe let me say that. We had a new producer come in. It's one point, on my show and, she had done many shows before, she got to our show and I won't get into names or anything, but she had, been fired from a few of them. And, yet she was brought in to produce this show, which was a very successful show. And she had brought an entourage with her of people that, she felt comfortable with, which I understand completely, to some degree, but she came in and we were very successful. I was, at that point I was successfully doing my thing on the show. But she decided that she wanted to bring these people in. Rather than be threatened by that, I took that as a challenge. And I said, well, I'm going to help, the new person she brought in. She said, I want him to work with you. I said, great, bring him in. Many of his ideas were pretty much things that I tried in the past. And I knew that these things are not successful, especially when you're in a situation where, you have to have results and you have to have them now. If you hold people up, it's hundreds of thousands of dollars, right? So, but I said, absolutely, I'm going to help you and to do this. And so my crew that I had, I encouraged them all to work, you know, with him and I worked with him. And, he had us trying things. Like I said, that I knew wouldn't work, but we did them and we did them in a way that he said, wow, nobody's ever done this as well. And I thought, well, okay. And so, about six months into this, they called a production meeting with my department. He was there and the producer was there and, one of the executive producers, said, well, we have to make a decision here because this is taking a long time and, it's not, looking really good at all now with doing what we're doing. And so we either continue what we're doing now, or we go back to what we were doing with Ray or we just hang fluorescent lights in the studio. I don't know, but something has to change here because, and we want Ray to go back to doing it. And I think that the thing that worked there was I leaned into it and I gave him everything that I could give him, right, to help him succeed with what he wanted to do, which I knew was not going to work. But, given the constraints of how we worked on the show, you're doing a soap opera, which a lot of content in a very short amount of time. So I think that was an affirmation that, it's listening and it's being willing and it's saying, you know, nothing's impossible. If you want to do it this way, we can do it this way. And then the result was I ended up without, he was gone and I was doing it.

Paul: 18:31

So, you know, it's interesting because I'm sure there are people listening, thinking he's either a saint or a dummy because he didn't push back, and of course it worked out. Counterproductive

Raymond: 18:42

pushing back. I mean, it's counterproductive really. What's the point of that? You know, the constraints of the situation is she's the producer. And so, you know, you either go with that and try to do and give it your best. But

Paul: 18:56

there's really something in there about ego and how you were able to just put your ego aside. I'm sure there were lots of conversations on the home front, but put your ego aside and just say, okay, I'm going to lean in and be willing again, that anything is possible, right? That mindset of be willing. How did you put your ego in check and just, lean in and say, okay.

Raymond: 19:19

At this point. It was his thing, you know, my ego was not involved because it was his, ideas that I'm executing for him. So they knew, and they knew that I could do it because I had been doing it. So I wasn't worried about convincing anybody.

Paul: 19:38

Me ask you about that because we started by talking about how lighting is artistry and how, lighting creates the mood and sets the stage and invites you in. And so, I can imagine people listening who have the same situation where somebody comes in over there, puts in a new process and you leaned in, you said, okay, I'm going to do it. But how did you manage that piece around artistry?

Raymond: 20:03

Well, you know, I tried to improve upon what he did to make it work, to get it to the point where it was doing what he thought it should do. And indeed, it was the best look that he had ever gotten. I knew that was not the best look that was possible, but I certainly shaped what he did and made it. And he is the one that told me and acknowledged that it had never looked this good. He just didn't have the ability to look at something and go, well, this is not, this is crap, basically.

Paul: 20:33

Interesting. So I imagine the Young and the Restless is like a team. I've heard you talk about that before. You're a close knit team. And, for leaders on listening, there are also teams that they're working in. Sure. For your role, you weren't front of camera. And so I'm sure actors with egos and all the accolades and commercials and, the pay and all of that. How did you feel like you were contributing, even though you weren't in front of the camera? How did that equate for you in terms of being equal and feeling like an equal member of the team?

Raymond: 21:08

At the end of, all the production series, the crawl goes through and there's your name on it and you were responsible for doing the lighting on the show. for the look of the show. And for me that whole ensemble thing, that's my contribution to it. And I think a show in the case of television entertainment, it's only as good as its weakest link. The weakest link can be the writing, but you can have fabulous writing and if it looks terrible and you're drawn out of the moment by the fact that this looks like nothing that ever existed in the universe, right? This look, the, of a, you're in a set somewhere and it's, looks like a set. Then, no matter how good the script is, and no matter how wonderful the acting is, it draws you out. It takes away from all that. So, I feel like that, everybody has a role to play, and it only works if everybody pulls together and everybody fulfills their role.

Paul: 22:01

And it sounds like everybody understands the value of their role.

Raymond: 22:05

Oh, absolutely. Especially when you see it done badly. Then you appreciate it.

Paul: 22:09

Yeah. I'd like to talk about, burnout. A lot of people in the workforce are burned out. And you were at CBS for 40 years. You worked 12 hours a day. A couple of times you didn't go home for four days, right? 12 hours a day, average five days a week.

Raymond: 22:26

Yeah.

Paul: 22:28

How did you not burn out?

Raymond: 22:29

Well, you know, for me, it was the challenge of it, I guess, that kept me going. And the fact that it was always different, certainly you're working, with sets that you may have worked before, but everybody wants to shoot it differently and everybody wants to try to be the one that finds a new way to do something. So you're responding to all that. The fact that the story changes, every story is a little different. And so, every time you're reinventing it, and you're making it work for that setup, for that situation. So, I guess, it was never boring. If I'd done a game show for 40 years, I would shot myself, but the fact that it was a drama, and every day brought a challenge, and we would do these, locations that were pretty exciting and they had incredible challenges. That kept it fresh, I think. I do remember a few times where, the size of it all. You mentioned the airplane crash and the building collapse and all of that. Sometimes the size of the mountain to climb, is daunting, what I learned to do as an actor is you break things down, you break things down into moments and you just start at the bottom. You don't look at the end result. You start at the bottom and you build the house, right? You construct what you're doing, but you start at a base level and build up and that's kind of what kept me fresh when I, at times I would get overwhelmed. I would just go back and start and just set it all up. And then once it's there, once you've got it set up. And you've gone over that hump, then you get to do the artistic part, which is be creative and in the moment, you know, react to things that happen and come up. And, and that's exciting. I never got bored with that part at all.

Paul: 24:15

So you were always stimulated.

Raymond: 24:17

Yeah.

Paul: 24:18

So I don't think our listeners understand how. Much pressure there is in filming an episode. It is down to the second. They count it down in the background. And there you are on the lighting board, right? Doing the work. How did you manage that? Can you just walk us through that pressure? Because every day is pressure. Yeah.

Raymond: 24:39

Well, you know, the good thing about now I didn't have to actually sit on the lighting board. That was only in the beginning, when I first started before I became a lighting director. So the way that worked, the way it was set up for us is that I had a board operator next to me and I had the video guy next to me that was operating shading, the cameras, running iris control and all that. So between us, we're all working together to make. especially the video guy and I are, we're working together to make this look. It's what a cinematographer does really. There's a little bit of a combination there. That part, I had the advantage of working so many years with people that in, in the case of my video man, right. That we'd worked so many years together that we kind of sensed what we were doing with each other. The time pressure, is always there, but you have these people with you, that you trust and you have a relationship with, and that really helps immensely. Because that's your question, right, is, is how do you handle that pressure?

Paul: 25:36

Yeah, and I heard you say your teammates.

Raymond: 25:38

And teammates, and trusting in that. And having that give and take. And not being afraid if somebody makes a suggestion. And I've always prided myself on this. I'm looking at this thing And my friend who's my video guy would say, well what about this? And I'd go, great idea. So not be threatened by having, feeling like you have to be the one that dictates everything. You know, I always prided myself on being open to suggestion. If somebody had a better way to do it,

Paul: 26:08

hey, great. Do you find that that is the mindset on, something is. Like a soap opera where time is money. Everybody's in.

Raymond: 26:17

Absolutely. I think so. I think, you have a plan, you go to execute the plan. And if somebody goes, Hey, what if we did this? You actually weigh that and be open to it, because especially in an ensemble situation, everybody has to contribute. And then you rise to that occasion. And that's when you say, Oh, that's not impossible. We can do that.

Paul: 26:39

All right, so let's take a switch here. Let's switch this up. I'm sure some of our listeners would love to hear of some type of catastrophe that happened while you were filming, over your 40 year career. I'm sure you have one that stands out where, you know, it was just a bloody day, right?

Raymond: 26:56

Well, let's see. There were a lot of catastrophes, like anything, I mean, lighting boards that go down, all that stuff, But that's part of the preparation is just knowing that you have backups, going in.

Paul: 27:10

I am curious for you about, as the senior lighting director, you work all day and then you create the scene at night

Raymond: 27:17

for

Paul: 27:17

the next day and you come into stage A or B, wherever you're filming. And you are, you do it. And I know you have a block with the actors prior to, but I'm wondering if when he ever went live to tape. if you just were like, Oh no, this isn't going to work. The lighting's off. I need to readjust. Did you ever just stop and say, okay, no, and try to convince everybody to change it?

Raymond: 27:39

Oh, absolutely. And, fortunately, because I was usually really prepared. I was trusted in that, when I saw something had really gone off the rails for some reason, I had the ability to say. Wait a minute, we gotta fix this. There was one time, okay, so there was one time, we'd shot a scene, and, we were shooting, at that point we were shooting not just one episode, we were shooting segments from other episodes also. And we were flying on this day. And, we shot the scene and we got into the next scene. I thought, Oh, that was a day scene. And we just shot for night. Right. And so, yeah, I had to go over and I had to say, excuse me, we have to go back and reshoot this scene. And of course there was a lot of, you know, what the fuck, pardon me, but, you know, but, I was really respected for having said, okay, This is not acceptable. We have to fix this, and, this would happen to other people and a lot of people, what they would do is they'd say, and I would say my fault, I'm sorry, you know, and a lot of people would go, Oh no, he did it, that's his fault or whatever. And I always think big mistake, when it's actually something I'd done, I always took responsibility for it, which I think gave me credibility always.

Paul: 28:53

What about feedback? I'm sure you've got lots of feedback.

Raymond: 28:56

Yeah.

Paul: 28:57

How do you handle feedback, especially from a producer or director that, could be a thorn in your side?

Raymond: 29:04

Well, my feeling was always, I always did it to satisfy me, right? And if somebody said, and there would be times we would shoot a scene, a producer or director might say, that was really great. And I would think, well, not really, but okay. But for me, the important feedback was how I felt about it. And if they agreed with me, I was thrilled. And I always love to get, you know, nobody likes to hear that, that was just mediocre. So I was pretty good about getting good feedback, but if it was good feedback and I didn't agree with it, I would always strive to do better.

Paul: 29:42

And so when you receive feedback, what I heard you just say is you check in with yourself.

Raymond: 29:47

Exactly. To see if it

Paul: 29:48

resonates. That's a nice

Raymond: 29:50

way to say, yeah, that's a much better way to say what I just said. Yeah. Yeah.

Paul: 29:54

Well, you check in and validate for yourself. Exactly.

Raymond: 29:57

Exactly.

Paul: 29:58

You know, there's this storyline that goes on all day long at work. How did you learn to, when you drove home, Release the storyline because you just shot the scenes. You've got a light for the next day. You've got to understand some of what's in the script. How did you learn to release the storyline so you can enjoy your evenings and be present with

Raymond: 30:21

Well, I wasn't always capable of doing that, not every day, but certainly, that had the advantage, I guess, in some ways that, we were doing, five shows, a week or seven shows a week or however many we were actually shooting. And, you give it, you do your best on it, you give it your best shot, and then you have to walk away because you have to go to the next day, you have to go to the next show, and you have to get the next story. And so, It's not that you don't reflect and you, I look at it as a learning situation. If it doesn't go, if things don't go well, it's a tremendous learning situation because you find, you go, Oh, wait a minute. there's another way to do this. And tomorrow I'm going to do that other way. So instead of beating myself up, if I felt like I didn't beat my expectations. I took that as a way to improve. Really, and to get better, because I think the mistake people make is that when they think they know everything, and they think they've got it down, and there's no better way to do it than the way I do it, right now, because then you're dead, I think, because there's always somewhere you can improve, there's always some lesson to learn in everything you do, and, you're a fool if you don't learn that lesson, and you're a fool if you just put it on auto, and hit the button and go, and, I think

Paul: 31:40

the greatest lesson has been that the show gave you. Life lesson. What's the greatest life lesson you learned about yourself working on that show?

Raymond: 31:50

Well, I think the greatest life lesson was That anything is possible and that I'm capable of doing this work. I'm capable of doing, whatever I set my mind to. And I don't need affirmation on a daily basis to feel that way about myself. I have that sense instilled in me. If I don't know how to do something, I can learn how to do it and I can master that. And there's no challenge that I can't meet.

Paul: 32:24

You think that same narrative is true for everyone?

Raymond: 32:27

Yes, I do. I think, if you stay outwardly focused and if you pay attention and if you have passion about things, and you have curiosity, Curiosity is huge. I think it's true about anything and anybody. The people that, I would have people come in and work for me, that would bounce in, bounce out, different, electricians say and you could always spot the ones that were curious and you could always spot the ones that you tell them how to do something and they go over and they do it and maybe improve on it and, and you go, okay, this person's thinking, this person's outwardly focused, this person's not thinking about, well, what am I going to have for dinner tonight? And God, I got to get out of here. What time's lunch, so I was always impressed by the person that walked in and came with commitment and was right there and was focused. And to me, that's, it's so obvious as I get older, especially you meet somebody and you see it in them. Well, the way they look at you, the way they listen. And I think that going back to what I would talk to a young person about, that's what I would probably say.

Paul: 33:30

There's a through line of be willing, be focused, know that anything is possible, and be curious.

Raymond: 33:37

Yeah, and passionate. I take it beyond curiosity into being passionate about being curious.

Paul: 33:43

So there you are, 40 years at CBS, 10 Emmys. I can imagine the decision to say, okay, I'm done was not easy. How did you know, okay, you know what? I'm ready for a new chapter because that is a legacy that not many people achieve.

Raymond: 34:04

Yeah, I think, they're working. A couple things that contributed to that, well, certainly, I had a very dear friend, Paul Tripp, who I talked to when I was approaching retirement, who talked me through a lot of things, and gave me a great perspective. But also, I had just worked with perhaps the most, creatively demanding producer, that had ever been on the show. And then, so the show was returning back to a producer that, and he had, pushed the boundaries on things in some ways that were inappropriate perhaps, to what the show was. But every day was a challenge with him, right? And which, we all met And then he was gone, and we had a producer we'd had for a long time who I really liked a lot. But the show, I could tell, was going to go back. Now they were gonna, they had spent a lot of money, and now they were gonna pull back on everything. And it was gonna become like a, more of a machine and the challenges were gonna be far fewer. And I thought two things. So that's one part of it, and I thought, wow. we're going to undo some of the things that I thought really worked and we're going to also undo some of the things that were annoying, but we're going to go back to something that's going to be much more of a routine kind of a day. And then, the video guy that I had spoken of earlier had pancreatic cancer and it turns out that he died and he'd asked me to be the trustee for his kids. So all of a sudden I had this challenge that, was something I didn't know anything about. And as I learned more about it, I realized I had been insane to say yes, but I said yes, I made a commitment. So, I realized that, I couldn't work 12 or 16 hours a day and pull off what I needed to pull off to get his estate in order. So between that and the fact that I knew that we were going to go into these incredibly calm, unchallenging seas, that I decided that that really pushed me over the top. And also I was at the magic age, you know, on my 65th birthday, I thought, well, I can do this. And then, like I said, you coached me a little bit on that. A lot on that, and that made a huge difference. So, that's what pushed me over the top. And I look now at the challenge of, being a trustee under circumstances that I went through. And that's possibly the most challenging thing I ever did, because it's not something I would have ever sought out. But I feel like I really did what I needed to do, and I couldn't do it working the hours that I worked.

Paul: 36:35

I was ready.

Raymond: 36:35

I guess I was ready. I was done.

Paul: 36:37

Yeah. Yeah. The pivot back, another pivot. You know, I heard you say, I'm ready for something else. Yeah. I don't want to take that pivot.

Raymond: 36:46

Yeah. Not to go back to boring.

Paul: 36:48

Let's have a moment of truth. Did you always know the script?

Raymond: 36:52

Ah, yeah, I made it a point to read it. In the beginning, when I did know the importance, I didn't. But I always did read it,

Paul: 36:58

so you always knew the storyline?

Raymond: 37:00

Absolutely.

Paul: 37:01

And how much of the show have you watched since you retired?

Raymond: 37:05

Oh, I watched one show that was a tribute to my friend who dedicated the show to him that died, the video operator. I found it difficult to watch just because, I didn't particularly care for the direction the look of the show went. My partner that was on the show, was still lighting, but, because I had a partner, but there was a new person in and I just didn't, I thought it didn't look good and it was hard to watch because, it makes you want to go back there and I didn't want to go back there.

Paul: 37:33

I really appreciate your willingness. I love the through lines that you've given us, you know, focus. Anything's possible. Passionate curiosity. Be willing. You've repeated that now a few times.

Raymond: 37:46

Yeah. Well, I have to say, I love it that you asked me to do this. And I love that I got to think about all this a little bit, because this is all stuff that, you know, but it's fun to think about the why and the how of all of it, that's something I love, you know? And, um, so this has been a really enjoyable experience to do this.

Paul: 38:06

Thank you so much for your time. You're very welcome. Thanks for your time, really. It is truly my honor to be able to talk to you and, and uh, just hear some more. Well,

Raymond: 38:17

thank you. Thank you very much. This is fun. Okay. Great.

Paul: 38:27

Be willing, focus, have passionate curiosity, and know that anything is possible. I think Raymond's words of wisdom apply both on and off the soundstage. Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Courageous Conversations. I hope you found today's discussion as inspiring and thought provoking as I did. And a special thank you to my guest, Raymond Thompson, for sharing his journey and insights. If you've enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, or share it with someone who could benefit from this conversation. We've got some exciting guests lined up in our next episode. So make sure to tune in as you don't want to miss it until then. Stay curious, stay courageous, and keep the conversations in your life flowing.